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Nonius
Founding Member
Nonius Unbound
Total Posts: 12666
Joined: Mar 2004
 
Posted: 2016-10-08 09:28
Especially when the choice is America.

On Italians, I'm a big fan of Sergio Leone and not surprised Granch likes Once Upon a Time in America..... I like it when De Niro's character is stirring that cup of coffee with a spoon for a very very long time. Henry Fonda was the best baddie as "Frank" in the quasie-namesake Western.

How about Pasolini?

Chiral is Tyler Durden

LongTheta
The Snowman

Total Posts: 3081
Joined: Mar 2004
 
Posted: 2016-10-11 02:09
The way I see it, Pasolini was in deep, deep need of psychiatric help. To attract attention to this sad fact, he made a number of films that desperately make his mental sickness totally clear. Unfortunately for him, every time he made one of these sick films, film critics took it as a great work of art because in post-war Europe that was the cool thing to do, and poor Pasolini had to start all over again and make another film that's even sicker than the previous one.

The truth of the matter (in my low-brow, obviously uneducated opinion) is that there are no redeeming qualities in these films, and for graphic depictions of how men can be infinitely worse than animals, we only need to watch the network news coverage of the area from the Balkans to Yemen, and from Libya to Pakistan. That will take care of things.

Time is on my side.

pj


Total Posts: 3317
Joined: Jun 2004
 
Posted: 2016-10-11 09:30
>Pasolini sux rant
I have two questions:
Post which war? Vietnam?
What atrocities in what films?
(Must have watched wrong ones.)

A disclaimer, IMHO Pasolini's movies are great.
Just Salo hasn't aged well cause of
aforementioned mediatised events in Balkans and elsewhere.

I saw a dead fish on the pavement and thought 'what did you expect? There's no water 'round here stupid, shoulda stayed where it was wet.'

LongTheta
The Snowman

Total Posts: 3081
Joined: Mar 2004
 
Posted: 2016-10-11 13:09
That wasn't a rant. I only said what I now think of Pasolini and his films Big Smile

PS The war I had in mind was WWII, and the films Teorema and Salo, both of which I haven't seen in more than 30 years, but they left a strong impression.

Time is on my side.

pj


Total Posts: 3317
Joined: Jun 2004
 
Posted: 2016-10-11 13:41
Teorema was released in 1968
Salo was released in 1976

BTW, I am waiting for Sully coming to this side of the pond.

I saw a dead fish on the pavement and thought 'what did you expect? There's no water 'round here stupid, shoulda stayed where it was wet.'

LongTheta
The Snowman

Total Posts: 3081
Joined: Mar 2004
 
Posted: 2016-10-11 14:01
> Teorema was released in 1968
> Salo was released in 1976

Sure, where is the contradiction with what I said?

Time is on my side.

pj


Total Posts: 3317
Joined: Jun 2004
 
Posted: 2016-10-11 14:12
> post-war Europe
That doesn't sound correct.
Unless Clint Eastwood may be described as post-war American actor.

I saw a dead fish on the pavement and thought 'what did you expect? There's no water 'round here stupid, shoulda stayed where it was wet.'

LongTheta
The Snowman

Total Posts: 3081
Joined: Mar 2004
 
Posted: 2016-10-11 14:32
I could have said "post the rebuilding of Western Europe", or "post the emergence of the socialist democratic welfare state in Western Europe". Say it any way you wish, I'm talking about the 60's and the 70's, when Western Europe experienced unprecedented degrees of social and economic success.

My point is that the great success of the post war welfare states gave people room to experiment with introspective indulgences of the type that characterizes Pasolini's films. People had fewer pressing problems to deal with. Things are different now. At least to me they are. Salo pales by comparison to what the men of the IS do to Yezidi women in Iraq.

In any case, this is my opinion which you may definitely choose to disagree with. If you like Pasolini, by all means go ahead Big Smile

Time is on my side.

granchio


Total Posts: 1530
Joined: Apr 2004
 
Posted: 2016-10-14 22:35
On Fellini:
I know he is looooved by many, but I find some of his work boring and not great.
E.g. don't shoot me but I do not particularly like "8 1/2" nor "la dolce vita" and I positively hate Satyricon.
Maybe the first two were good at the time they came out, but watching them now they don't really work. A bit like a lot of the french movies of the time.

On the other hand, I think "la strada" and "amarcord" are very good movies.
Probably "i vitelloni" too, but I have to admit I do not remember it very well.

On Pasolini: if I have seen any movie, I have forgotten - but I have heard other people whose opinion I respect saying what LongTheta is saying.
I half remember reading some his work, bits of essays and poems, and the impression I remember is that it was quite good.

Sergio Leone is a great solid director. Pity he died before shooting the movie on Stalingrad or was it Leningrad?

I was talking with a friend, who had a good fun theory about the links between the experiences of some of the partisans that worked more closely with allied special forces (the war being referred to here is WWII, "the" war) and the stunts they pulled, the stories and mythology that generated, and the birth of spaghetti western.
There is also a link with the birth of the Brigate Rosse (or at least their Piemonte column, not so much the academic founders in Trento sociology faculty).
If you're intrigued, google colonel Popsky as a starter (whom I was first alerted to by a memorial stone on the wall of the basilica in Apollinare in Classe, which ends with a misterious line thanking him)


"Deserve got nothing to do with it" - Clint

katastrofa


Total Posts: 357
Joined: Jul 2008
 
Posted: 2016-10-23 20:02
Spaghetti Westerns and Politics

"In the Nazi-occupied northern part of the country a fascist state under Mussolini was founded, with the small town of Salo (near the Garda Lake) as capital."


jslade


Total Posts: 1064
Joined: Feb 2007
 
Posted: 2016-10-25 22:44
I liked Bertolucci's "The Conformist" and Pasolini's "Decameron." "Salo" is one of the most messed up things I've ever seen though, and like a couple of other things I wish I could unwatch, I really wish I hadn't watched it.

Ugetsu Monogatari was pretty damn good.

"Learning, n. The kind of ignorance distinguishing the studious."

katastrofa


Total Posts: 357
Joined: Jul 2008
 
Posted: 2016-10-25 23:12
I'm not going to watch "Salo", but isn't it basically a movie about capitalism?

Salo: "All things are good when taken to excess."

Wall Street: "Greed is good."

KangaXX


Total Posts: 292
Joined: Mar 2005
 
Posted: 2016-10-26 00:50
If I recall correctly salo looks at how we dehumanise some people and not others. It is worth watching. The violence and disturbing scenes are tame compared to the violence in modern films.

In that regard Caligula is worth watching. Shocking when released due to the hard core porn that was added to the film, it is tame relative to internet porn. Putting all the porn to one side it is a great film about power with a stunning performance from Malcom mcdowell, as well as many others.


Bright, energetic people—usually quite young—have promised to perform miracles with “other people’s money” since time immemorial.

LongTheta
The Snowman

Total Posts: 3081
Joined: Mar 2004
 
Posted: 2016-10-26 07:38
Caligula is soft porn with a stunning performance by young Helen Mirren Big Smile

Time is on my side.

KangaXX


Total Posts: 292
Joined: Mar 2005
 
Posted: 2016-11-13 20:36
Circle (2015).

Short, punchy, interesting.

Bright, energetic people—usually quite young—have promised to perform miracles with “other people’s money” since time immemorial.

jslade


Total Posts: 1064
Joined: Feb 2007
 
Posted: 2016-11-14 01:32
In the realm of bad science fiction, I enjoyed the Swiss 2009 film "Cargo."
Liked it better than Interstellar, which had way too much crying and dumb philosophy.

"Learning, n. The kind of ignorance distinguishing the studious."

katastrofa


Total Posts: 357
Joined: Jul 2008
 
Posted: 2016-11-14 11:30
Unearthly Stranger

Philosophical Sci-Fi with some good acting.
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