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mib


Total Posts: 350
Joined: Aug 2004
 
Posted: 2009-06-12 15:20
there is a story making rounds in the blogs and on Bloomberg, on two japanese guys smuggling $134Bn in "US treasury bond certificates"

http://cryptogon.com/?p=9095
http://www.gdf.it/GdF__Informa/Notizie_Stampa/AdnKronos/Adnkronos_2009/Adnkronos_Giugno_2009/info-1518911049.html (italian customs)

Is this possible? I thought bearer treasury bonds were not issued for 20+ years and very few remain in circulation

Head of Mortality Management, Capital Structure Demolition LLC

FDAXHunter
Founding Member

Total Posts: 8234
Joined: Mar 2004
 
Posted: 2009-06-12 16:45
Yeah well, for some reason I don't think you're going to send 134 billion USD in real bonds on a journey with two little Japanese guys for protection.

There's lots of scams with fake bearer bonds and share certificates. The way these scams work is that people will offer you "retired" bearer certificates (i.e. certificates that have been redeemed or otherwise cancelled (and marked as such in the computer) but where the actual paper certificates were never destroyed).

"Look, I'll offer you 100,000 shares of these Coca-Cola share certificates. I can't sell them myself because Krakowian citizens are restricted from owning any shares but you my friend, you could and I'll give them to you for... a quarter of the price?"

The Chaos Army seems suspiciously well-organized.

FDAXHunter
Founding Member

Total Posts: 8234
Joined: Mar 2004
 
Posted: 2009-06-12 16:53
Hey, because it's you MIB I'll give them to your for a tenth of the price. 1/10th! What do you say?

The Chaos Army seems suspiciously well-organized.

mib


Total Posts: 350
Joined: Aug 2004
 
Posted: 2009-06-12 17:04
Mine. Can I have your bank account details, home address and a copy of your passport, please? I need this to arrange the cash transfer.

And because it's you, I would like to warn you that for my bank to authorise the payement, they are requiring a small fee that, unfortunately, can not be paid from the same account for tax reasons. Will you able to reimburse me for this fee? You can transfer me $544,86 via WebMoney, using the e-mail from my profile


Head of Mortality Management, Capital Structure Demolition LLC

RFMontraz
NP Italian Stallion

Total Posts: 1991
Joined: Mar 2004
 
Posted: 2009-06-12 18:01
You gentlemen might prefer to transfer the cash to an escrow account (which for security reasons will be in the name of one of our associates) in order to avoid bad surprises. In which case I'm happy to offer our services, please call our Antigua branch. Number in profile.

Was it worth it?

pj


Total Posts: 2923
Joined: Jun 2004
 
Posted: 2009-06-13 14:50
Well, some googling indicates the bearer bonds were stopped in 1982

OTOH
you could buy these a a present.

Therefore I would venture that the journalists got it wrong,
again.

вакансия "Программист Психологической службы" -але! у нас ошибко! не работает бля-бля-бля -вы хотите об этом поговорить?

mib


Total Posts: 350
Joined: Aug 2004
 
Posted: 2009-06-13 15:48
well, if the issuance was stopped in 1982, 30 year bonds would be due no later that in 2012, so there is no contradiction here

Head of Mortality Management, Capital Structure Demolition LLC

jungle
Chief Rhythm Officer
CSD LLC
Total Posts: 3162
Joined: Jul 2004
 
Posted: 2009-06-14 01:57
Die Welt suggests at least some of the bonds are genuine: link

"When a commitment device is easily available but is not adopted, I tend to get concerned." Buiter

FDAXHunter
Founding Member

Total Posts: 8234
Joined: Mar 2004
 
Posted: 2009-06-14 11:10
The authenticity of the certificates themselves is irrelevant. The question is, are they still "live".

There's thousands of real certificates floating around that are worthless. People try all sorts of scams with these. They either try to sell them, try to use them as collateral for a credit line or some purchase of sorts.

It's a myth that bearer securities are equivalent to cash. These things always have serial numbers and if the serial number has been marked as "stolen", "cancelled", "redeemed", "destroyed", et. by the issuer, you're out of luck and will not be able to convert them. Unfortunately, many people do not know this and just accept that if they have the bearer form of something (that is certified to be authentic) that they have cash on hand.

The Chaos Army seems suspiciously well-organized.

urnash


Total Posts: 553
Joined: Sep 2006
 
Posted: 2009-06-18 09:17

If you assume that these bonds are real (and live), then this link has some interesting crankpot theories about them. And yes, I know that FDAXHunter will probably reply that you can also assume that the moon is made of green cheese...


in the street of the sky night walks scattering poems -- E.E. Cummings

Energetic
Forum Captain

Total Posts: 1400
Joined: Jun 2004
 
Posted: 2009-06-18 19:55
All we've seen is a photograph that's been moved on the Internet. But just with that we can tell that those are not real Treasury securities...In Washington, officials pointed out that there are no Federal Reserve or Kennedy bonds issued by the United States.

I am missing something here. If the Kennedy bonds don't exist what was the need to look their photograph? And BTW, why do they have a name for a non-existent artifact?

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple and wrong. - H. L. Mencken

FDAXHunter
Founding Member

Total Posts: 8234
Joined: Mar 2004
 
Posted: 2012-02-18 10:17
Update:
Record $6 Trillion of Fake U.S. Bonds Seized

The Chaos Army seems suspiciously well-organized.
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