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Strange


Total Posts: 1346
Joined: Jun 2004
 
Posted: 2016-01-07 04:03
So now I am trading structured EQD on the sell-side and getting seriously tired and burned out. Is there a chance for me to shift to a non-trading buy-side job that would offer me an improved life-style in exchange for much lower pay?
What I have to offer and what I want to get:
- I have some 15 years of hands-on experience in equity derivatives and hybrids
- I am pretty handy with R and Excel, my C++ and python can be restored if nessesary
- I have buy side stat-arb and vol-arb experience, both building and running strategies
- given my experience I'd be perfect in a research or risk seat
- I would like to move upstate so I prefer Greenwich, Stamford or something around there
- I am ready to take lower comp in exchange for ability to work part time at least the first few months

Ps. Send me an email if you have concrete ideas :)

It's buy futures, sell futures, when there is no future!

HitmanH


Total Posts: 430
Joined: Apr 2005
 
Posted: 2016-01-07 10:18
Not sure about in CT - but in London there are a few buy-side firms (I'm thinking one in particular who I know wanted a structured EqD traded from the sell-side about 9m ago) which are a bit of a mix between hedge fund, family office / pwm - and I know would love that experience...

Kind of a mix between risk and structuring/client focused work...

I know that opportunity was filled - but imagine there are other firms in that profile?

Strange


Total Posts: 1346
Joined: Jun 2004
 
Posted: 2016-01-07 17:16
I would consider Europe proper (Swiss would be awesome), but not London.

This said, I don't have a slightest idea on how to look for something like that even here - most HHs are more interested in placing me into yet another trading gig.

It's buy futures, sell futures, when there is no future!

ddrdouble


Total Posts: 45
Joined: Nov 2006
 
Posted: 2016-01-11 13:13
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akimon


Total Posts: 566
Joined: Dec 2004
 
Posted: 2016-01-17 16:20
Why limit yourself to a buy-side job, or even within the financial sector?

I'm just thinking out loud, but with > 10 years of derivatives trading experience sitting on a desk staring at futures quotes in some big building, wouldn't it be more fulfilling to just f'it all and just move to where you want to live, and do whatever you want there?

If you still like finance and markets, I'm sure you can find consulting-type of work where you can control when and where you do most of your work, rather than having to show up everyday at some company and grind away again.

btw, good luck with this! I hope the transition works out.

nuprin


Total Posts: 13
Joined: Jul 2009
 
Posted: 2016-01-17 21:32
To the OP, if I may offer just one suggestion: if/when you decide to leave your current sell-side role, it might not hurt to try negotiating your exit. This could be as simple as talking to senior management, saying you want to leave in X months, offer to train replacement(s), smoothly hand-off client relationships to them. In exchange you could get lightened workload, and more importantly, time + resources for your transition. I've seen it done before, fwiw. Obviously, this will depend on your own situation, as well as your relationships with key decision-makers.

Perhaps this is useful for you, or perhaps not. Either way, I wish you the best of luck!

svisstack


Total Posts: 303
Joined: Feb 2014
 
Posted: 2016-01-18 00:31
plot twist: @nuprin is @Strange boss.

to the OP, I will also not limit to financial sector, you need to find something that dont make you bored, but finance can be often boring,
and consider quitting after you find new job, but you should know what i mean as you mentioned 'risk' somewhere

good luck!

Time well wasted.

tabris


Total Posts: 1247
Joined: Feb 2005
 
Posted: 2016-01-18 00:47
I don't think non-trading buy side job offers THAT much more of an improved life style as I have seen research guys having pressure to pump out a lot more research and have seen risk guys working all weekends and nights because numbers are off.

It really depends on what you are trying to get away from. If you are just burnt out from bank life style, maybe applying to something less demanding like fintech *bbg/TR and such where your skills would definitely be needed from quant side. You can also work at a well oiled real money machine where life style is definitely less demanding.

Dilbert: Why does it seem as though I am the only honest guy on earth? Dogbert: Your type tends not to reproduce.

nuprin


Total Posts: 13
Joined: Jul 2009
 
Posted: 2016-01-18 21:11
@svisstack - in all seriousness, the point was to offer a suggestion possibly offering some breathing room to the OP, who had said they were burned-out and wanted to work part-time.

To the OP: if you can afford it, why not cast a wider net, including areas outside of finance? I'm reminded of a friend who left EQD sales, and eventually moved into completely different space, basically turning a hobby into a new career. In between he had some short consulting gigs with buy-side. Best of luck, I hope it works out!

Strange


Total Posts: 1346
Joined: Jun 2004
 
Posted: 2016-01-25 16:08

Thanks a bunch for all of the ideas!

@nuprin: I will definitely negotiate a graceful and smooth exit. I like my bosses and co-workers and I want to make this as painless as possible for everyone. Plus, I need my deferred comp, so it's not an option to just resign and go do something else. It's a tricky topic, obviously, I am most concerned about my junior trader as it would really suck for her if the parachute someone in my seat.

@svisstack - yes, risk might be pretty boring and political, I would mostly consider buy-side risk jobs for this reason.

@tabris - the real-money jobs, how does one find them? I am not in the right soup to mingle with these people (sales people have more exposure, while I am a screen monkey)

Honestly, I am just tired of staring at markets 24/6, of constant politics, of being "only as good as your last trade" and having to perpetually be on-point for pricing. The stuff that I thoroughly enjoy (systematic strategies) has been taken away from me for regulatory reasons. I certainly still like the intellectual challenge of finance, though I am sure there are other fields out there that I'd enjoy as much. I find that I like tinkering/coding a lot, even do it at home as a hobby (e.g. I have a retail-oriented fin-tech idea as well at the moment that I am trying to build up).

In terms of compensation, I can afford doing something else, the nest-egg is about where I want it to be. This said, I need to continue working - I don't want to dip into the principal just yet, plus I'll go nuts rather quickly and, unfortunately, I need health insurance that is not gonna bankrupt me.

So far I see the following options:

(a) move back into systematic trading area as a secondary PM or research guy. The positive is that it's a project-driven, apolitical environment and it will keep the brain engaged. The negative is that it's still likely to be in the NYC.

(b) move into insurance hedging. I am a perfect candidate for that and it promises to be very interesting (at least on paper), but I am afraid it's even stuffier then an investment bank unless you work with good people.

(c) join a fintech startup. Plenty of those around at the moment and I have my own ideas on what might work etc. The negative is that it's likely to be long hours and crazy project pressures.

(d) join Bloomberg. I hear they always like to have product specialists around. The negative is the same as point (a) as it's offices are only in NYC.

 

 


It's buy futures, sell futures, when there is no future!

silverside


Total Posts: 1411
Joined: Jun 2004
 
Posted: 2016-01-25 16:20
@strange:

Hi

If you want to talk about (b) let me know. I don't have a job for you but I'm happy to chat.

I don't see why physical location (Manhattan vs somewhere like Connecticut or even Philly) would be such an issue for an employer but then I don't know the local market.

Bonne chance, with your experience there's gotta be something out there.

Strange


Total Posts: 1346
Joined: Jun 2004
 
Posted: 2016-01-25 17:17
@silverside - yeah, I'd love to have a chat about it, especially the experiences. Seems like the industry is hiring, too.

It's buy futures, sell futures, when there is no future!

tabris


Total Posts: 1247
Joined: Feb 2005
 
Posted: 2016-01-26 01:01
Strange - if you don't get the face time or don't have the connections with real money guys, going via headhunters might be the best way. That side, if New York and London aren't really your thing, then I don't really know too many guys that reside in suburbs. Off the top of my head, I'd say Gamco is around that area you are looking. Otherwise you might need to go to Boston.

Dilbert: Why does it seem as though I am the only honest guy on earth? Dogbert: Your type tends not to reproduce.

svisstack


Total Posts: 303
Joined: Feb 2014
 
Posted: 2016-01-26 11:51
>> (c) join a fintech startup. Plenty of those around at the moment and I have my own ideas on what might work etc. The negative is that it's likely to be long hours and crazy project pressures.

that's true but in my case working on something new over nights, constantly challenging yourself, doing that with ultra-limited resources on startup is great,
depends on what is working for you,

Time well wasted.

TSWP


Total Posts: 370
Joined: May 2012
 
Posted: 2016-01-26 16:46
>I would consider Europe proper (Swiss would be awesome), but not London.

Strange, PM privately if you want, I operate my own AG from Switzerland, not hiring but I have contacts that I am willing to give to you and then you can take it from there.


The only thing that counts: can you make money?

nuprin


Total Posts: 13
Joined: Jul 2009
 
Posted: 2016-01-29 06:21
@Strange: Sounds like a plan. At the risk of stating the obvious, esp. to someone experienced, let me say: if I were negotiating an exit, I'd frame it more as my wanting to pursue hobbies, dabble in startups, join the Peace Corps, etc., i.e moving *to* something else, rather than moving *away* from your current work/people/firm. Again, this is based on successful exits I've observed.

As for fintech startups, I've talked over past year with several out here in California. Not an expert, but can share what I happen to know, over email.

Bloomberg is in SF. They have lots of people doing Machine Learning. IIRC, they have a Product Specialist or two out here, as well.

Scotty


Total Posts: 721
Joined: Jun 2004
 
Posted: 2016-02-11 13:59
Well, here in Singapore we are building out a hedge fund incubator for both discretionary and systematic traders called Kit-Trading. May be of interest.

“Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power and magic in it.”

Strange


Total Posts: 1346
Joined: Jun 2004
 
Posted: 2016-02-18 15:28
Singapore is a bit too far and too flat for my taste, but I am considering various buy-side opportunities along these lines. Not sure if it would bring me the peace and quiet, but I will remove myself from the sell-side bullshit at the very least.

It's buy futures, sell futures, when there is no future!

goldorak


Total Posts: 991
Joined: Nov 2004
 
Posted: 2016-02-19 19:56
You will still get the sell side bs on the phone everyday.

You do not get rid of the dark side that easily... Evil Grin

If you are not living on the edge you are taking up too much space.

katastrofa


Total Posts: 361
Joined: Jul 2008
 
Posted: 2016-02-27 01:23
[q]that's true but in my case working on something new over nights, constantly challenging yourself, doing that with ultra-limited resources on startup is great,
depends on what is working for you, [/q]

Been there... the moment you realise that the equity grant rules are stacked against everyone except the founder and the investors, your motivation goes away ;-)

bramj


Total Posts: 48
Joined: Sep 2009
 
Posted: 2016-03-24 14:39
Might be too late to the party to be of help, but I moved about a year ago from EQD trading at a bank to hedging at an insurance company. If you're interested in the perspective, let me know.

akimon


Total Posts: 566
Joined: Dec 2004
 
Posted: 2016-04-28 06:59
I never wanted to work at an investment bank - that's where creativity goes to die

During lunch, I would slip away to the New York Public Library to research for an hour for my books, and then go back to work. After the markets closed, I went home and kept on writing. Rinse and repeat the next day.

Reminds me of my previous life!

Nonius
Founding Member
Nonius Unbound
Total Posts: 12687
Joined: Mar 2004
 
Posted: 2016-04-28 09:31
Already?

Chiral is Tyler Durden

chiral3
Founding Member

Total Posts: 5013
Joined: Mar 2004
 
Posted: 2016-05-06 21:50
I would come back from lunch and write for hours while I looked out my window at the cemetery.

Wait, maybe that wasn't me.

Nonius is Satoshi Nakamoto. 物の哀れ

Nonius
Founding Member
Nonius Unbound
Total Posts: 12687
Joined: Mar 2004
 
Posted: 2016-05-07 10:02
shit that sounds vaguely familiar.

Chiral is Tyler Durden
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