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Nonius
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Posted: 2016-04-24 01:28
Chiefly, I find most vegetarians extremely annoying if they pontificate/broadcast their tastes. Having said that, have had thoughts to go that way. thoughts/dreams/memes/etc?

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jslade


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Posted: 2016-04-24 01:56
Is alcohol a vegetable?

"Learning, n. The kind of ignorance distinguishing the studious."

Nonius
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Posted: 2016-04-24 02:19
hahahah. I don't know. that sort of reminded me of the ol standard "is purple a fruit"? maybe I'm just getting old. meat ain't digesting in my body like it used to.

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jslade


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Posted: 2016-04-24 04:23
I eat less of it over time; more on the fish and fowl kick than ungulates. Not sure if it's me or the way they raise critters these days.

"Learning, n. The kind of ignorance distinguishing the studious."

NeroTulip


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Posted: 2016-04-25 03:16
What angle at you coming from? Is it the harm to animals (factory farming etc...), the harm to yourself (links to heart disease, cancer, etc..) or the harm to others (methane emissions, antibiotic resistance, etc...)? There is also an interesting religious angle to this.

Probably already sounds like pontificating, and I'm not even vegetarian. I just think there are more dimensions to human nutrition than taking pictures of your food and posting them on Instagram.

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chiral3
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Posted: 2016-04-25 03:33
I eat a largely vegetarian diet M-Th/F. I have some very good restaurants near where I work that specialize in vegan / paleo-vegan / vegetarian. It is good for my energy and I enjoy the bigger and more extravagant cuisine on the weekends. Maybe an approach like this could work for you.

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Nonius
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Posted: 2016-04-25 08:30
For me not about animals and all that. Certainly not religion either. More like digestion and, like Chiral mentioned, feeling like more energy if I haven't downed a huge amount of meat. I probably won't go all the way veggie, but have been significantly reducing consumption. I've been sticking to non-animal flesh breakfast and lunch and having some at dinner; seems to work well for me. Every once in a while, maybe once every couple of months, I do like a nice flame broiled USDA prime steak but not the insane portions they serve at some places.

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rowdyroddypiper
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Posted: 2016-04-25 11:02
I generally don't advocate eating systems or programs but one that I've experimented with and has resulted in a noticeable increase in energy and general well being is the Wahl's protocol. The doctor behind it has MS and she uses it to combat the degenerative effects of the condition. At least she's willing to subject it to actual study too so I think whether it works or not no one is being sold snake oil. It's generally premised on sufficient macro nutrients and diversity of food consumption. Reasonable tent poles I think. There is a vegetarian and a meat eating version and the author gives her take on the trade offs. I have a spreadsheet that organizes the consumption but it's fairly straightforward. Have a look if your primary goal is to feel better based on what you eat. I'll add that I don't adhere strictly to but I feel better (placebo effect I can't say) when I'm more rigorous with it.

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goldorak


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Posted: 2016-04-25 13:25
I quit vegetables when I was 6 years old and never came back. I am the proof you can live very well without eating any vegetable. I am widely compensating the nutritional "gap" with chocolate.

'You become what you eat' they say, and there is no way I am willing to look like a veggie... I tend to concentrate on this, "The Perfect" product...

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NeroTulip


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Posted: 2016-04-25 15:00
Interestingly, I do something similar to chiral3. Without going all-out vegetarian, I eat mostly vegetarian during the week, but enjoy the occasional steak if it is of top quality and small in size. I do feel better, and enjoy the treats much more than before, you can give it a try.

One thing I would advise is to change things slowly enough to be able to assess the effects, and to minimize the chance that you go too far and reverse direction. The only thing more annoying than a pontificating vegan is a pontificating ex-vegan.

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svisstack


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Posted: 2016-04-25 15:22
.

Time well wasted.

chiral3
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Posted: 2016-04-25 18:05
Eating a veggie lasagna right now. The "cheese" is made from cashews. Also have veggies with a kale pesto.

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Nonius
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Posted: 2016-04-25 18:48
Been replacing bread pasta rice with beans and nuts. Wife doesn't like the dietary change though

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MCgeneratedname


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Posted: 2016-04-25 19:06
my daily breakfast since beginning of year: Overnight oats.

Mix 35g porridge oats in 200g fat free natural yogurt and leave over night in fridge.
Mix in some fruits (usually banana) in the morning.

This and 3-4 pieces of fruit during the day keep me going until dinner.

NIP247


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Posted: 2016-04-25 20:33
In terms of "energy" or "feeling of energy", I'm sure you've seen this chart.

Satiety Index

Banans, while probably full of good nutritions, have been completely replaced by oranges and tangerines for the sugar crash it has had on my kids.

Happy to stay with meat, even though I understand vegetarianism on moral grounds. As for health effect, I seek to minimise the negatives with a glass of red when available...

On your straddle, done on the puts, working the calls...

Nonius
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Posted: 2016-04-26 15:07
I would have thought more sugar in oranges! anyway, sugar is the new tobacco. totally evil apparently. There was a documentary I watched not long ago that conveyed the theory that obesity (in the US, but increasingly worldwide) is due mostly to sugar, and that the Sugar Lobby in the early 70s in the states pushed hard to make "fat" look bad/evil/killer, which precipitated nonfat dairy and all that. Nefariously, muhhahahah, the taste for fat was substituted with the taste for sugar....enter the sugar industry...muhahah. average weight/waistlines grew since 70s to today, even though on average people are working out a lot more. anyway.

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KarlHungus


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Posted: 2016-04-26 19:39
You mean this documentary?

Nonius
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Posted: 2016-04-26 19:48
No but that's a great one! ThNks!

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Nonius
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Posted: 2016-04-26 20:26
Goldarak has a point though. Eating pure meat and nothing else does has its advantages. If I were to do a meataterian diet, possible but the portions would have to be reasonably small.

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Nonius
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Posted: 2016-04-26 21:49
by the way, for the avoidance of doubt, we humans owe everything to meat. brains, human brains are good because of that.

notwithstanding that, mofo, getting old.

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Nonius
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Posted: 2016-04-27 23:05
back on this in general, I've started converging to a meld of mediterranean, japanese and maybe a sort of splash of Armenian/Georgian diet, occasionally interrupted by indulging in South Indian black dal, or maybe some west coast mexican stuff and mesquite grilled fish.

so, for me what works is your basic lentils and other beans, nuts, olive oil, cheese, fish in various levels of cooking or not, yogurt, wine, herbs in a basket (coriander/dill/basil/parsely), huge portions of tomatoes, avocado, aubergine, courgette, onions, garlic, oranges, lemon, lime, some more wine drunk out of the horn of a bull, chacha, eggs, maybe a portion of a burnt offering of young lamb spit roasted by the phonecian seaside, every now and then that is, and maybe every now and then some carne asada or carnitas. and lots of chilli peppers, every day actually. oh, and beer. and vodka. and 4 packs camel light. no funny stuff like MELT.

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HankScorpio


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Posted: 2016-04-27 23:16
[Nonius]: ... and 4 packs camel light ...

Dude, Nooooooooo.

Nonius
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Posted: 2016-04-28 00:17
camel light's a veggie, no?

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FDAXHunter
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Posted: 2016-04-28 13:12
Hello NP,

I'm an ovo-lacto vegetarian, and have been on this diet for over 20 years with zero deviations. People often ask me about it (which is actually annoying if you want to know the truth).
Vegetarianism is a very personal choice and purely reflects personal preference in my opinion. It's a bit like religion that way and because of this you often observe religion-like zeal in practicing vegans (and some vegetarians). And like all religious debates, good science and scientific evidence often fall by the wayside as they run their course.
This has been mentioned by Nonius already.

There is no scientific evidence (that I'm aware of) that vegetarians or vegans live better in any way, shape or form. In fact, most vegans are deficient in a number of nutrients (whether they acknowledge this or not is another question that again, just comes down their personal view of the world).

I don't think being a vegetarian is inherently more healthy. And being vegan definitely isn't. Humans are omnivores and being vegetarian goes against essential nutritional requirements. Sure, we can supplement and pay very close attention to what we eat, but it's sub-optimal by definition.

So whenever people tell you that being vegan or vegetarian is inherently more healthy, I'd say be skeptical. There is no evidence of this being the case, and many vegetarians I know eat a lot more unhealthily than their omnivorous counterparts.

As a vegetarian, I would recommend that if people are worried about a healthy, balanced diet I would guide them to exactly that: a healthy, balanced diet consisting of some meat and poultry, more fish, and all that with a reasonably high percentage of unprocessed foods (which almost always contain a truck load of simple & complex carbohydrates coupled with an overdose of fats and additives that I don't even know what they are anymore (and I studied biochemistry).
I would also advocate not eating too much (i.e. keeping your caloric intake to a certain level) and consuming smaller portions throughout the day instead of going for the whole breakfast/lunch/dinner 24-hour cycle. This is hard in today's lifestyles.

To paraphrase Andym what he said on trading once:
"Eating healthy is simple, but not easy in today's times."

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chiral3
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Posted: 2016-04-28 18:53
Maybe people ask you because you say "ovo-lacto". I suspect that when most people say "I am vegetarian" they mean to imply, and it is inferred, that they are ovo-lacto. But many people don't know the term so they ask, not realizing that most vegetarians are ovo-lacto.

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