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Avenger


Total Posts: 12
Joined: Jun 2018
 
Posted: 2018-06-16 01:47
Hello everyone, im studying Engineering in Europe but i dont really enjoy it. I love everything about markets and trading so i want to do a Master in something like Financial Engineering because i really want to work in a Hedge Fund but i dont know which country i should go for. I know that Luxembourg and Switzerland have a lot of assets under management but im not sure if they do trading. Any ideas?

katastrofa


Total Posts: 458
Joined: Jul 2008
 
Posted: 2018-06-16 10:00
Asset management often involves trading.

Maggette


Total Posts: 1062
Joined: Jun 2007
 
Posted: 2018-06-16 10:09
netherlands has some of the most successfull prop Market making operations with Optiver, AllOptions, IMC and similar shops. You got Hedge Funds in continental Europe, for example CFM in Paris, but if you want trading UK will probably have the most options. And you have large commodity Shops, who also trade (Vitol, Glencore, Trafigura, Shell, EON, RWE....)

Ich kam hierher und sah dich und deine Leute lächeln, und sagte mir: Maggette, scheiss auf den small talk, lass lieber deine Fäuste sprechen...

Avenger


Total Posts: 12
Joined: Jun 2018
 
Posted: 2018-06-17 01:07
Yes but in Luxembourg at least most of the jobs are in operations or private banking (tax heaven). I dont think any trading happens there. There are some HFs in Switzerland (Geneva and Zurich) but i only speak english and some french (they are bad, i havent used them for years)...

Avenger


Total Posts: 12
Joined: Jun 2018
 
Posted: 2018-06-17 01:10
Ofc UK is my best bet but i dont know if Brexit makes things difficult for EU students. So you recommend Netherlands for a Master?

Maggette


Total Posts: 1062
Joined: Jun 2007
 
Posted: 2018-06-17 14:26
No. IMHO where you study and where to work are two different things. To be honest, I am not even sure if an MFE is a great thing and will help you much. Good engineering, solid base in coding, CS and scientific computing and a deep understanding of optimization, probability and statistics might help you as much or even more than the standard MFE Curriculum. But that is only my opinion.

You can study at any good university and apply for internship positions at the mentioned companies

Ich kam hierher und sah dich und deine Leute lächeln, und sagte mir: Maggette, scheiss auf den small talk, lass lieber deine Fäuste sprechen...

Avenger


Total Posts: 12
Joined: Jun 2018
 
Posted: 2018-06-17 21:02
Thanks a lot for the reply! Really helpful!!!

Some questions:

1. What would be better? A Master in CS/AI or a Master in Quantitative Finance?

2. Wouldnt be much easier to create a network and opt for internships in the country you study? Besides, most of the mentioned companies are based in Netherlands (which is a country that is very fluent in english btw), so i dont see the reason to study in Belgium for example... Ofc its possible to find a job/internship in a differect country but why make things more difficult? :)

Thank you in advance!!!

Avenger


Total Posts: 12
Joined: Jun 2018
 
Posted: 2018-06-20 00:01
It seems that i should better do a Master in Switzerland, Luxembourg or France. More chances to find a job or an internship there :)

http://www.eurekahedge.com/Products/europe-hedge-fund-database

TonyC
Nuclear Energy Trader

Total Posts: 1282
Joined: May 2004
 
Posted: 2018-06-20 03:34
is Europe really that much more spread out than America?

no one in America would say " gee, 90% of the trading jobs are in New York City or Chicago, so I guess I'm only going to apply to NYU or Columbia or U. Chicago ... and i'll ignore Harvard and MIT and Stanford and Cal Berkley because theyre in the wrong cities"

go to the best school you can, and worry about the geography of where you're going to work later.

flaneur/boulevardier/remittance man/energy trader

ronin


Total Posts: 365
Joined: May 2006
 
Posted: 2018-06-20 12:45
Nobody in Europe would say that either.

It's just that brexit has spooked people, and nobody still knows what brexit means. "Either I go to London in the next 12 months, or it may get a lot harder to go to London in terms of visas and work permits" is a legitimate concern. Not particularly likely in my personal view, but you never know.



"There is a SIX am?" -- Arthur

Avenger


Total Posts: 12
Joined: Jun 2018
 
Posted: 2018-06-20 15:32
"A couple of my former classmates had their offers revoked or were relocated to other EU cities such as Frankfurt, Brussels, Paris and Dublin. Tier 2 visa holders are prioritized in most banks from what I heard."
I think it is likely...

So, would you go to Canada for your Master when your goal is to work in Wall Street?
Why everyone who wants to work in the oil&gas industry goes to Texas or Aberdeen and not California for example? I dont say that its impossible, but why make things more difficult? I might be wrong, im 19 i dont know much, logic speaks for me :)

TonyC
Nuclear Energy Trader

Total Posts: 1282
Joined: May 2004
 
Posted: 2018-06-20 19:24
>So, would you go to Canada for your Master
>when your goal is to work in Wall Street?

if Mcgill or U.Toronto were better than any of the American schools that made me an offer, then yep, thats where I'd go.

> Why everyone who wants to work in the oil&gas industry
> goes to Texas or Aberdeen

lots of folks that work in oil & gas COME from U.Texas or U.Aberdeen, but I guarantee you that they would have been crazy to GO to U.Texas or U.Aberdeen if they had been offered a chemical engineering slot at Stanford or Berkeley or MIT and wanted to be the oil bidness

Pop quiz ... if the Supreme Court of the United States is located in Washington DC, how many Supreme Court justices went to law school at Georgetown, or American University, or George Washington University, or the University of Virginia, or the University of Maryland ... fine schools all, but the answer is zero. In fact, they all went to just two (ok, maybe 2 and one twentyseventh, the Notorius RBG took her last year of law school at Columbia when her husband moved to New York)


flaneur/boulevardier/remittance man/energy trader

day1pnl


Total Posts: 45
Joined: Jun 2017
 
Posted: 2018-06-20 22:14
>Some questions:

>1. What would be better? A Master in CS/AI or a Master in Quantitative Finance?

I hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes, but I'd say computer science. Other good choices are engineering, math, physics, statistics, actuarial science, etc. If you're good at coding it's great, but don't forget to take a lot of math/stats classes along the way. Vice versa if math is your strong suit, don't forget to get you hands dirty with some code..

You can apply for internship on a trading desk in London (worth as much as MFE / QF masters) and read Hull's book during your summer vacations (not the holy grail but a decent book for self study imo)

Avenger


Total Posts: 12
Joined: Jun 2018
 
Posted: 2018-06-21 03:58
Thanks for the replies!!!

One last question: As a prospective quant would it be better to study at a french speaking region or it doesnt matter at all? I can only speak english and some french (they are bad though, i havent used them for years).
I mean i can go to Germany for a Master in CS (most programmes are in english so no problem there) but i think it would be difficult to land an internship in that country without knowing a single word of german (i just find it strange to study in germany for example and then search for an internship/job in a different country, because of language). Should i focus on the french speaking parts of EU or a quant job has no language borders?
Im asking this because i have heard that you cant work on the sell side without knowing fluently the local language and im wondering about the situation on the buy side...

ronin


Total Posts: 365
Joined: May 2006
 
Posted: 2018-06-21 11:26

I think France is very hierarchical. If you can go to one of their top schools and become a top French quant, go for it. If you can't, stay away.

"There is a SIX am?" -- Arthur

pj


Total Posts: 3415
Joined: Jun 2004
 
Posted: 2018-06-21 13:19
What ronin said.
BTW, how many NP members are down in France?
I think even less than female members.

The older I grow, the more I distrust the familiar doctrine that age brings wisdom Henry L. Mencken

FDAXHunter
Founding Member

Total Posts: 8367
Joined: Mar 2004
 
Posted: 2018-06-21 13:55
Almost everyone speaks Enlish in Germany to some degree or another. There are even university courses that are exclusively in English, as you pointed out yourself already.

The buy side will be much less selective regarding speaking the local language.

Having said that, living anywhere without picking up the local language (which you should be able to do within 6-12 months, else you may want to re-think whether you really have the brain power to work in a quantitative field in the first place).

The Figs Protocol.

Avenger


Total Posts: 12
Joined: Jun 2018
 
Posted: 2018-06-21 15:12
Yeah, when i said french speaking region i wasnt referring to France only. Thanks for the advice though! Belgium, Switzerland and Luxembourg speak french too, but from the answers i dont think it matters anyway.

So, any info about the above countries including Germany (those are the ones that im currently interested in). Like what ronin said about France for example.

ronin


Total Posts: 365
Joined: May 2006
 
Posted: 2018-06-24 21:01
@avenger,

You are overthinking this. Nobody really cares where you went to school, as long as it is a top school.

If you have something *really* interesting on your cv, it may get you through the first door. Like we once had a guy who was finishing his PhD but he was also an internationally acclaimed ballet dancer. That was interesting enough to bring him in before somebody else who didn't stand out.

But you probably mean another case. We saw this cv and we went "oh my god, we just have to bring this guy in. Do you know where he went to school? It was - wait for it - Belgium!"

Yeah. That didn't happen.


"There is a SIX am?" -- Arthur
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