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Jurassic


Total Posts: 265
Joined: Mar 2018
 
Posted: 2019-05-30 21:21
whilst I dont have any firsthand experience, I dont buy that all traders and quants must suck at sales.

deeds


Total Posts: 449
Joined: Dec 2008
 
Posted: 2019-05-30 22:24
@jurassic - from a formal perspective, interesting comment...on what do you base your opinion then?

Jurassic


Total Posts: 265
Joined: Mar 2018
 
Posted: 2019-05-30 22:43
the idea that good at maths = bad at social skills

deeds


Total Posts: 449
Joined: Dec 2008
 
Posted: 2019-05-30 22:47

seems possible to me that 'social skills' should be indexed to respect the full universe of reasonable possibilities...we typically use a chauvinistic (with respect to personality) concept (as with beauty or other similar consensual criteria)

That said, i'll bite...ever studied math at university? worked at a commercial firm where math, modeling and engineering were critical activities?

How did you form your opinion? As simple as proposed statement couldn't possibly be true in full generality?

Strange


Total Posts: 1579
Joined: Jun 2004
 
Posted: 2019-05-31 00:21
> That wasn't buyside me talking about sales who cover me. It was (former) sellside me talking about sales I worked with.

I was merely summing up my sell-side and buy-side experience. Over the last decade I have met only two salespeople that actually had a clue (both cases it was a "she" fwiw). My impression is that sales people self select somehow. I have met salespeople that have interesting macro ideas, but salespeople that actually have a technical understanding of the product are rare.

“My dear, here we must run as fast as we can, just to stay in place. And if you wish to go anywhere you must run twice as fast as that.”

tabris


Total Posts: 1262
Joined: Feb 2005
 
Posted: 2019-05-31 04:04
> I have met salespeople that have interesting macro ideas,

I don't think I ever met one that gave an original macro idea though... its usually a rebranded idea from another buyside firm

Dilbert: Why does it seem as though I am the only honest guy on earth? Dogbert: Your type tends not to reproduce.

ronin


Total Posts: 485
Joined: May 2006
 
Posted: 2019-05-31 09:23
> the idea that good at maths = bad at social skills

Sales isn't about social skills.

On every sales team there is one person who generates 90% of sales, one person who generates another 9%, and everybody else adds up to 1%.

The first one is usually some nerdy girl with teeth that stick out who never speaks to anybody. The second one is a weird guy who smells and who nobody wants to sit near. All the obvious sales-y people are the 1%.

"There is a SIX am?" -- Arthur

ronin


Total Posts: 485
Joined: May 2006
 
Posted: 2019-05-31 09:24
> I have met salespeople that have interesting macro ideas

Yes, that's when you have to be afraid. Very afraid.

"There is a SIX am?" -- Arthur

Jurassic


Total Posts: 265
Joined: Mar 2018
 
Posted: 2019-05-31 09:40
That said, i'll bite...ever studied math at university? worked at a commercial firm where math, modeling and engineering were critical activities?

@deeds all of the above

nikol


Total Posts: 794
Joined: Jun 2005
 
Posted: 2019-05-31 11:31
LEH had top men and collapsed. Did they all have a clue? Yes. And still.
The idea that 5-15% interest at 10+ yr is sustainable annihilates all those compliments.
CORRECTED.

Strange


Total Posts: 1579
Joined: Jun 2004
 
Posted: 2019-05-31 21:25
> LH had top men and collapsed.

What's LH?

“My dear, here we must run as fast as we can, just to stay in place. And if you wish to go anywhere you must run twice as fast as that.”

nikol


Total Posts: 794
Joined: Jun 2005
 
Posted: 2019-05-31 23:24
Deep apology for typo - LEH is an old ticket for Lehman Brothers.

ronin


Total Posts: 485
Joined: May 2006
 
Posted: 2019-06-05 15:56
So, observations.

Forum activities go up when we talk about salespeople.

Any mention of Lehman kills the forum stone dead.

"There is a SIX am?" -- Arthur

Kitno


Total Posts: 399
Joined: Mar 2005
 
Posted: 2019-06-05 23:54
1. Need for quants is down
2. Banking pays much less variable pay so competition is down
3. Innovation/risk/boundary pushing is the antithesis of remuneration structures now
4. You're all boring. Where's the brass in the chopper up to heli ski in the Urals these days?

"Yeh, after that blow out I bid the bonds at 76 and you hit man...You're 77/81 now? Cool man...What? Do I care at 80? No mate... I'm 73 bid now...I'm sure you didn't just load up just for me...".

nikol


Total Posts: 794
Joined: Jun 2005
 
Posted: 2019-06-06 09:44
> 4. You're all boring

Yes, it must be chilling.

Many crazy funny geeks are in crypto now trying to make it faster without losing reliability. All this movement is a bit sectarian. Reminds me a bit the first christians meetings in caves. They believe Worship that the "bitcoin winter" is behind and pray that the new bubble (sorry, I must say the Sun) will emerge again from the debris.

> 1. Need for quants is down

It is all renamed Data scientist and, yes, it is cheaper.

PS. The news into my face now:
"Facebook will pay salaries in GlobalCoin, embraces Decentralization".
"Edgewater Markets Launches Institutional Crypto Trading Platform"
"Bitpanda to Launch a Global Platform for High-Volume Traders"
"Malaysian Financial Regulator Approves Three Crypto Exchanges"
etc.
There is a lot to do beyond paid jobs, 'secured nest' is over.

Koopdeta


Total Posts: 5
Joined: Jun 2019
 
Posted: 2019-07-30 21:13
Okay so what's the conclusion for university students like me who look at you weird old guys talking in riddles and stuff. What about the hungry, young, and smart guys who just want to have fun and make money? Am I an idiot for still being captivated by the excitement I had in high school while reading these books and articles about traders in the good old days?

Should I run away as fast as possible from finance and find something else? I'm studying computer science so it wouldn't be difficult. Actually, I am from continental Europe where working in finance is absolutely looked down upon in the academic community, not to mention there isn't a proper finance job market here anyways.

However, there are some prop trading firms who offer plenty of money and their recruitment process practically only filters on how good you are at mental math. These firms even trade crypto. Also, there still seems to be plenty of money still in energy trading from what I can tell.

goldorak


Total Posts: 1062
Joined: Nov 2004
 
Posted: 2019-08-02 16:26
Someone, please switch off the light before leaving.

If you are not living on the edge you are taking up too much space.

london


Total Posts: 319
Joined: Apr 2005
 
Posted: 2019-08-29 01:52
Good to see a good few familiar avatars on this thread.

To the OPs question, from personal experience, i was active here long before linkedin, other social media or stack-exchange even existed.

It was a different world. We were all anonymous to each other; there was no "profile-fluffing" to try to show off. The only thing to judge each other on was by the quality of each others' comments. Content was king.
I learned a lot from those whose opinions i admired.
And amused by those who got banned or exposed as self-promoters (the indefatigable irene aldridge springs to mind).

After many years of online anonymity, NP then provided me with an instant social circle in meat-space when I landed in NY.
Many happy hours, ski-trips, Xmas drinking sessions followed. I recall visitors from SF, Chicago, London, Canada and elsewhere being the catalysts to get together.
The all-time classic was sitting in Gingerman one December being approached by a stranger who had flown in from Australia ... now that was dedication.
This was 2010-2014 or so, so after the GFC.

Over the years, some who i had never met in person, I subsequently came into contact. I always felt that having spend my misspent youth pouring over NP that I had a connection with them.

Why has activity declined recently: echoing what has already been said.
* Some folks have left the game.
* Others have more responsibility (either management or families!)
* Other venues have diluted the online discussion venues (linkedin, stack-exchange, etc)

In closing: I would be remiss for not pointing out that NP is responsible for at least one marriage and several children: so quant finance and matchmaking, who would have thought!

I for one miss the happy hours and holiday boozing and would be game to see them started again. To any young 'uns reading: organize it and the old gits will come!

Strange


Total Posts: 1579
Joined: Jun 2004
 
Posted: 2019-08-29 02:49
I think we should bring back the happy hours! In fact, once the labour day is in the rear view mirror, I'll take it upon myself to organize an outing.

“My dear, here we must run as fast as we can, just to stay in place. And if you wish to go anywhere you must run twice as fast as that.”

london


Total Posts: 319
Joined: Apr 2005
 
Posted: 2019-08-29 16:42
Do it!

We’re getting the band back together ...

HitmanH


Total Posts: 487
Joined: Apr 2005
 
Posted: 2019-08-29 23:25
Lovely post London - thank you.

I recall from 2005-2008 I was posting now & then - and then I realized a colleague (at a small/mid-size,
He then kindly revealed who some other members were that he knew - and I've had very positive relationships with some of them since then.
(although unfortunately never so much on a group basis - but many 1-1 very boozy sessions)

Maybe the world was smaller / nicer then - but I've still a lot of time to give to NP - and I still check it at least every 48 hours, and the email address in my profile once every week - and will continue to do so...

Anyone in London / Mayfair - always up for a beer...


TonyC
Nuclear Energy Trader

Total Posts: 1312
Joined: May 2004
 
Posted: 2019-08-30 17:05
you know me strange always up for Belgian beer at an Alsatian bar ... or some weird transylvanian dessert wine or a south african long contact orange Grenache at Compagnie des Vins Surnaturalz


flaneur/boulevardier/remittance man/energy trader

Strange


Total Posts: 1579
Joined: Jun 2004
 
Posted: 2019-09-06 14:46
FYI, there is a drinks discussion in Community section...

“My dear, here we must run as fast as we can, just to stay in place. And if you wish to go anywhere you must run twice as fast as that.”

nikol


Total Posts: 794
Joined: Jun 2005
 
Posted: 2019-09-06 16:00
if I could send an avatar.

Praetorian


Total Posts: 225
Joined: Apr 2009
 
Posted: 2019-09-06 23:23
After a two year hiatus from this forum, it is very nice to hear the familiar voices :). Thanks! Oh damn, i registered my account 10 years ago...

I my opinion another reason for smaller quant demand are faster cpus/gpus. Lots of stuff can be made brute force/monte carlo style nowadays. So why hire some specialist when the interns are just fine?
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