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Forum Captain

Total Posts: 1494
Joined: Jun 2004
Posted: 2019-06-19 16:37
You must have seen it when it happened but I was told only yesterday:
Goldman Sachs says half of all new analysts and entry-level associates must be female, and issues targets for black and Latino hires for the first time.

I am struggling to understand this. This is GS, of all places. They're known for hiring best, or at least that's the image they created. That's how they win, or used to. The guy cannot be so stupid as to compromise quality to achieve the idiotic quotas. Or can he?

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple and wrong. - H. L. Mencken


Total Posts: 13
Joined: Jan 2019
Posted: 2019-06-19 20:02
Virtue signaling, diversity, etc is good public relations.

I don't think there will be an impact in terms of output. Think about the roles in each division.. the majority of jobs at GS could be done by anyone with a pulse.


Total Posts: 784
Joined: Jun 2005
Posted: 2019-06-19 20:24
Of course, we say that the ceiling comes from our own self-limitation, but that's not completely true, e.g. you cannot simply become the member of White's club (even if you say you don't want to).

Forum Captain

Total Posts: 1494
Joined: Jun 2004
Posted: 2019-06-19 20:31
You consider enforcing arbitrary quotas to be a virtue? I suppose we'll have to disagree.

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple and wrong. - H. L. Mencken

Forum Captain

Total Posts: 1494
Joined: Jun 2004
Posted: 2019-06-19 20:36
Ceiling is a different story; it may (or may not) be a real problem as opposed to "under-representation" by a couple of %. I've read that somewhere (I think Germany) they already have a law demanding 50% women in the boardrooms.

But then again some people will say that anyone with a pulse can be a board member of any corporation.

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple and wrong. - H. L. Mencken


Total Posts: 784
Joined: Jun 2005
Posted: 2019-06-19 21:09
My other interpretation is that such guarantee of equality leads to the further decrease of human population in developed countries.

If number of jobs is X occupied by men (assume) is suddenly distributed under such 50/50 quota the X/2 men have to go on the street. They will be left without future or food. Three ways:
- Die out naturally
- Change the social roles with lucky wife (if married) and become house-hubby
- Flip sex (by the way, I see huge market of plastic sergeants becoming sort of branch of human resourcing).

Another possibility I consider that GS needs operators of AI-tools introduced recently. These tools need kind of people handy with AI-powered washing machines (still very useful skill).

PS. Above is a sarcastic joke. However, I should say, that when I had a possibility to hire, I hired women whenever possible and never regretted.
PSS. There was social research somewhere that if to combine a team of men/women with p/1-p proportion, then the team has highest performance at p=0.3 and 0.7. p=0.5 is lowest, and p=1 or p=0 (either sex) is somewhere in between p=0.3/0.7 and p=0.5.

PSSS (final). Alphabet/Google might be in the beginning of time of troubles

Founding Member
Nonius Unbound
Total Posts: 12786
Joined: Mar 2004
Posted: 2019-06-29 07:21
on GS, it's an absurd policy that is throwing comps of women vs men out of whack. we recently extended an offer to a GS female. quite junior. a GS senior partner did a big song and dance for her, and probably countered by some insane amount, and she stayed.

Chiral is Tyler Durden

Founding Member

Total Posts: 5100
Joined: Mar 2004
Posted: 2019-06-29 16:59
GS jumped the shark a few years ago. They will struggle to be as relevant as they were for a long time to come.

The problem with this D&I shit is that the equality needs to happen from birth to ensure that people develop to their potential and then forcing %ages wouldn't matter (unless you believe in nature of nurture). It sucks that all this virtue signaling basically forces under-qualified candidates to be considered at the big, publicly traded firms. It also sucks that people from different backgrounds don't get the same opportunities to succeed in the first place. This should wash out in a couple of decades.

Nonius is Satoshi Nakamoto. 物の哀れ


Total Posts: 1151
Joined: Jun 2007
Posted: 2019-06-29 20:26
Well...this is borderline politics, hence against phorum rules....and you shall not break the holy phorum rules:)

But we could frame it as a "systemic" kind of discussion;).

On a more serious note, I think it is more difficult to decide if and how these quotas affect a business.

I worked in big shops. Not GS, but I moved around in large organizations of similiar elitism and worked with former GS guys.

I think one should make distinctions between senior and junior hirings.

If anybody thinks that the hiring proccess at any big company has ANYTHING TO DO WITH FINDING "THE BEST" CANDIDATE, THEN GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS!!! Sorry for yelling at the readers of this post in large caps, but a reality check seems to be in place here.

HR=>having no clue
input from teams/desk heads/team leads => talke guys similiar to their background

Junior positions? Who gives a fuck! A little bit "diversity" won't change a yota of the commercial outcome....(by the way, we have an huge sample selection bias here...if HR always takes what they think is best, do we ever get to know how the "less elite candidates" would have performed;)? )

Senior positions? I don't know. I think it is easier here to find a good candidate (through personal networks qho can vouch for the track recrd of the candidate). I think quotas won't help anybody here.

@Energetic: I am not aware of such a law. I do know, that in German DAX companies we have more male board members with the first name "Thomas" (very common name in Germany) than female board members.

Ich kam hierher und sah dich und deine Leute lächeln, und sagte mir: Maggette, scheiss auf den small talk, lass lieber deine Fäuste sprechen...


Total Posts: 1030
Joined: May 2004
Posted: 2019-06-30 06:32
Obviously we should not stop here. In the interests of equality of opportunity, children should be taken from their parents at birth and raised by the state, so no one can grow up with a privileged background. And then we should only have standard-issue babies produced with identical genes, so no one has any genetic advantage or anything like a defined ethnicity or gender. Only then will we be equal. Bright future to look forward to.

#end sarcasm

1984 was supposed to be a cautionary tale, not an instruction manual.

"Earth: some bacteria and basic life forms, no sign of intelligent life" (Message from a type III civilization probe sent to the solar system circa 2016)


Total Posts: 3457
Joined: Jun 2004
Posted: 2019-06-30 07:33
@NeroTulip you should read « The Brave New World » by Huxley.
It fits better Cool

The older I grow, the more I distrust the familiar doctrine that age brings wisdom Henry L. Mencken
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