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MCgeneratedname


Total Posts: 143
Joined: Dec 2013
 
Posted: 2016-03-07 21:17
So... something landed on my desk today.
I guess I'll just leave it here.

Patent Application: System for executing synchronized trades in multiple exchanges




svisstack


Total Posts: 303
Joined: Feb 2014
 
Posted: 2016-03-08 00:51
imho its a embarrassment for them to describe 'that' using word 'invention' so many times in year 2016 ... its just very obvious solution to simple problem,
now they are trying to exploit system and trick usa to patent something that probably everyone in country using to trade on several exchanges? I not liking this from business making perspective

Time well wasted.

chiral3
Founding Member

Total Posts: 5022
Joined: Mar 2004
 
Posted: 2016-03-08 01:38
Ssvisstack, do you want half a whole or a whole half? Viewing the glass as half empty: people are assholes. Lo tried to patent asset allocation. The world (esp the US) is rife with people that file as many patents as possible just to that they can have their hands in someone else's pocket siphoning money out of someone else's hard work.

Nonius is Satoshi Nakamoto. 物の哀れ

Nonius
Founding Member
Nonius Unbound
Total Posts: 12705
Joined: Mar 2004
 
Posted: 2016-03-08 11:02
a few months back I was looking at a patent that purported to use "Special Relativity" for cross exchange arbitrage.....of course the Special Relativity was a red herring....

Chiral is Tyler Durden

Martinghoul


Total Posts: 859
Joined: Oct 2008
 
Posted: 2016-03-08 11:09
My guess is that cross exchange arbitrage using gravitational waves isn't too far behind...

Insofar as I may be heard by anything, which may or may not care what I say, I ask, if it matters, that you be forgiven for anything you may have done or failed to do which requires forgiveness...

Strange


Total Posts: 1346
Joined: Jun 2004
 
Posted: 2016-03-08 18:00

"a few months back I was looking at a patent that purported to use "Special Relativity" for cross exchange arbitrage.....of course the Special Relativity was a red herring.... "

Dude, all they were saying was that they will use special relatives at different exchanges...


It's buy futures, sell futures, when there is no future!

MoreLiver


Total Posts: 481
Joined: Dec 2004
 
Posted: 2016-03-08 23:04
"Special" as retarded?

Hard for many to understand inflation, but not for me.

EspressoLover


Total Posts: 254
Joined: Jan 2015
 
Posted: 2016-03-09 01:30
The patent-ing is really insidious. It's not just about making money from infringement damages, but allows you to get a good luck at competitors' secret sauce in discovery. Since HFT is so reticent to publicly divulge even basic strategic elements, it will be really difficult to challenge based on prior art.

Luciender


Total Posts: 75
Joined: Aug 2008
 
Posted: 2016-03-09 02:55
Espresso: has this actually happened?

EspressoLover


Total Posts: 254
Joined: Jan 2015
 
Posted: 2016-03-09 04:47
Well here's a case of a patent troll suing Citadel for the legendary idea of relative value trading between a leveraged ETF and its basket. As ridiculous as this sounds, it's still really hard to defend against. Of course, everyone who's been in the industry for more than 5 minutes realizes that leveraged ETFs have convexity effects relative to the benchmarks.

But that's surprisingly difficult to show in court. ETF market makers have no reason for publicizing even basic aspects of their strategy. Unfortunately prior art requires public documentation, and most HFT strategy tends to exist as oral lore.

http://news.priorsmart.com/leveraged-innovations-v-citadel-l9pC/


Phantom309


Total Posts: 133
Joined: Jul 2013
 
Posted: 2016-03-09 05:18
Wow... just wow.

You cannot patent an idea or IP, so I guess you would have to prove that the specific apparatus, computer systems, algorithms, etc., would infringe the patent.

Leveraged Innovations (Kiron) 82 patent claims:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=7698192.PN.&OS=PN/7698192&RS=PN/7698192


Brimful of Asha on the 45"

chiral3
Founding Member

Total Posts: 5022
Joined: Mar 2004
 
Posted: 2016-03-09 22:59
A very high percentage of people that I know that left funds to start their own shops, particularly software or consulting, which are not competing, have been sued (or at a minimum there was injunctive relief sought) by their previous employer. You can't have an idea for years because these fucktard primadonnas (thank you MoreLive, taking it back) haven't had an idea that worked since QE1 took their lunch money. The worst thing about injunctive relief is you bleed out. The lawyers love it. For the funds it's like trawling for fish. Maybe you have a 10% success rate and maybe 25% of that has some success that you get to pocket like positive carry. I know one guy who every time he updated his website with a whitepaper or a screen shot of some software he got a cease and desist from the funds lawyers. There was no connection at all between his start-up work and the fund that he had a very senior position at several years earlier.

Nonius is Satoshi Nakamoto. 物の哀れ

TSWP


Total Posts: 383
Joined: May 2012
 
Posted: 2016-03-09 23:07
Thanks Chiral, that's illuminating.... Puke

The only thing that counts: can you make money?

chiral3
Founding Member

Total Posts: 5022
Joined: Mar 2004
 
Posted: 2016-03-09 23:18
I told three people on my team today in very terse terms that "complaining is not a strategy". A mantra to live by, myself included. People just need to have legal playbooks when they change spaces so that they are not ideating with manhattan lawyers who truly could care less if you live or die. You have to print out you non-competes, non-solicits, non-disparagements, ..., all the covenants when you sign them. Any garden terms that change as your leaving. It's not 1999.

Nonius is Satoshi Nakamoto. 物の哀れ

TSWP


Total Posts: 383
Joined: May 2012
 
Posted: 2016-03-09 23:30
A few years ago I had a chance to enter in very warm contact with a guy that ran a large multi-B fund in the US.

He wanted to absorb me and my model in his organization.

At the end we did not agree on the terms and I never signed up with him but I never realized fully until today after your latest comments how much I have been ignorant, naive and lucky and what were the potentially consequences, had I signed with him.
Scary.

The only thing that counts: can you make money?

darkmatters


Total Posts: 69
Joined: Nov 2010
 
Posted: 2016-03-15 19:26
RenTech might just want to clip the ticket when Goldman or someone offers "Microsecond execution algos on multiple exchanges" to their clients as an option.

Not saying that they might not go after some HFT, but the above reason might be more lucrative in the short term.

alphadude


Total Posts: 4
Joined: Feb 2012
 
Posted: 2016-03-15 20:01
hi tswp; interesting experience you had there with the fund. I had two similar experiences; and I realize then that the process of the many interviews requests were purely for the intent of data mining by those funds. they simply pick your brain on all possible angles; and will introduce you to various people in the organization to talk to you.

when they are done with that; they nicely lead you out by introducing unacceptable terms or unattractive role.

hopefully you did not reveal too much about your models.

TSWP


Total Posts: 383
Joined: May 2012
 
Posted: 2016-03-15 23:25
> I realize then that the process of the many interviews requests were purely for the intent of data mining by those funds. they simply pick your brain on all possible angles; and will introduce you to various people in the organization to talk to you.
>when they are done with that; they nicely lead you out by introducing unacceptable terms or unattractive role.

alphadude, I know what you mean, and actually in 2014 I was invited by a a well-known fund in London (it has a 3 letters name) to discuss my strategy, but then it appeared it was like you said, i.e. they were fishing for strategies, so I decided to abort the meeting.

However this is not what I was referring to in my previous post.

In 2011-12 I was discussing a partnership with a US fund manager.
It was not really a partnership, more like an acquisition by brute force (given the size of the counterpart) and it should have then become some sort of partnership if everything worked as expected.

If I had accepted, most likely I would have NEVER EVER been able to un-bind myself from this relationship for the rest of my life/career, because of the reasons Chiral clearly explained in his latest posts.

Fact is, most quants have no choice: sign up and give up. You wouldn't even get the job in the first place if you did not have something valuable to be robbed of (or the potential to create it while working at the firm where you are hired).

I am afraid too many of us realize this when is too late, that was my point.

The only thing that counts: can you make money?

Patrik
Founding Member

Total Posts: 1338
Joined: Mar 2004
 
Posted: 2016-03-16 10:09
To be honest, there seems to be a lot of the opposite going around as well - people think they have something very valuable and wont engage with anyone about it and hence ensure their ideas never gets a chance to fly. Just adding this since quite often ideas are "cheap" and timely realization and capitalization is tough. Always a balance.

Capital Structure Demolition LLC Radiation

TSWP


Total Posts: 383
Joined: May 2012
 
Posted: 2016-03-16 12:34
> quite often ideas are "cheap" and timely realization and capitalization is tough

I agree, my thoughts were actually relative to quants that actually do have a working strategy, some track record, etc.

The only thing that counts: can you make money?

chiral3
Founding Member

Total Posts: 5022
Joined: Mar 2004
 
Posted: 2016-03-16 14:48
My boss keeps asking me about disruption and innovation. Last week I had to meet with some guy that paints (he calls it performs) large scale murals of well-known thinkers while music like the EDM-version of Imagine plays. I was juiced up for a few hours after, I'll admit it. All my in-depth psychological profiling keeps saying that I see around corners and need to watch out for alienating people by going 0-100 too quickly. I don't think I see around corners enough. I try to, though. Anyway, it would be interesting if there could ever be enough collusion or cooperation from a network of agents to actually make a dent. Generally in the ecosystem view there's enough meta-abstraction that people don't feel like their IP is at risk.

Ectomorphic Barbarians at the Gate

Nonius is Satoshi Nakamoto. 物の哀れ

TonyC
Nuclear Energy Trader

Total Posts: 1245
Joined: May 2004
 
Posted: 2016-03-16 15:19
> Patent Application: System for executing synchronized trades in multiple exchanges

so does this amount to: "ok dirty dozen commandos, synchronize your watches, and then attack at the appointed time of 0300"

flaneur/boulevardier/remittance man/energy trader

alphadude


Total Posts: 4
Joined: Feb 2012
 
Posted: 2016-03-16 16:40
that is quite true; you find crazy ones on both ends of the alley. I remembered once my boss pushed me to interview few candidates to get ideas; and told me that it's the way business is done in the market place. A dog eat dog situations.

Martinghoul


Total Posts: 859
Joined: Oct 2008
 
Posted: 2016-03-16 16:52
@alphadude: same here...

Insofar as I may be heard by anything, which may or may not care what I say, I ask, if it matters, that you be forgiven for anything you may have done or failed to do which requires forgiveness...

mtsm


Total Posts: 206
Joined: Dec 2010
 
Posted: 2016-03-16 18:29

Yeah I remember that. We had pre-interview meetings during which we were given precise instructions what to ask, research and find out about a candidate with the understanding that there was no intention to hire. This would go on for several rounds...
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