Forums  > General  > Best “unknown” quant funds/shops  
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Total Posts: 35
Joined: Aug 2018
Posted: 2018-08-10 16:50
HitmanH is right as far as Cubist, no real short term infrastructure but if I recall correctly they did have some people colocated, and if not colocated then latency was borderline absurd. Almost went there years ago and had some discussions with their tech guys, could barely get away with running what we have there.

The quantbot manager platform is for the less entrepreneurial or if one doesn't have the alpha/team to go it alone then a great option. So the huge advantage of being there is that costs are shared and data is cleaned and ready to go as is the system to trade through including hft infrastructure. Maybe most similar to WorldQuant.

Probably lower payouts than other multi-manager places but likely easier to get up and running with their tech platform. For example had been at Millennium years ago and they provided us with raw data but had to parse/clean it all and had our own trading infrastructure (pretty much only given some servers).

Usually it's people who are solo who go there cause otherwise would make sense to try and get funded directly by Schonfeld for example but then gotta directly bear all costs like compliance, data, and technology and it ain't cheap.


Total Posts: 32
Joined: May 2018
Posted: 2018-08-10 21:50
Cool, really appreciate the insight anonq. So how would you say the risk/drawdown tolerance compares at a quantbot/WQ versus a millennium/cubist? In other words, does quantbot put up with bigger DDs before cutting people/teams, since presumably they allocate less capital or ramp up more slowly?


Total Posts: 35
Joined: Aug 2018
Posted: 2018-08-11 19:16
cubist/quantbot maybe a little more patient but it's so situation specific so like is the fund in a drawdown making them more cagey, do they feel optimistic that you're on the right track but just in a historically large drawdown, or do they think you've lost your edge and the drawdown is just validation for them of that. So maybe the mean drawdown tolerance at one firm is larger than others but at the individual level I don't think it matters as much.

I would likely still go with the best payout structure/tech platform that allows for success. Usually do have contractual drawdown limits but tend to get ignored on the funds side when they want to cut size, and if one does try to enforce the contract more likely to lose goodwill so definitely a trade off there.


Total Posts: 32
Joined: May 2018
Posted: 2018-09-07 03:47
Any color on Walleye?


Total Posts: 210
Joined: Mar 2011
Posted: 2018-09-12 23:37
Azx: hadn’t heard of Pan either, thanks. Wikipedia has them as real estate developers. Another well known shop out of Minnesota bought a lot of real estate as well.

I find this fascinating because (a) the liquidity is completely different (b) is r.e. then the most obvious other kind of play for pure-numbers / pure-money people?

The firm I am thinking of iirc bought a bunch of LV property after a major price drop. Which sounds classic Graham+Doddian… (although I would argue book value means much less in a totally artificial landscape which would be better as a national park than having subsidized airplanes to it.)

Kuebiko: no email in your profile


Total Posts: 1191
Joined: Jun 2007
Posted: 2018-09-13 00:11
Don't know walleye and might be completely wrong here....but that software stuff sounds weird:

Ich kam hierher und sah dich und deine Leute lächeln, und sagte mir: Maggette, scheiss auf den small talk, lass lieber deine Fäuste sprechen...


Total Posts: 32
Joined: May 2018
Posted: 2018-09-13 00:30
@Rashomon: fixed

@Maggette: totally agree about the software....


Total Posts: 40
Joined: Sep 2009
Posted: 2018-09-26 09:55
I don't find that particularly strange, actually seems quite common. Another example is DRW. Props shops inevitable tend to build up a lot of excess cash over time, which will eventually needed to be invested in real assets where real estate seems to be the easiest route.

What would be a more obvious play for a prop shop in your opinion?


Total Posts: 1
Joined: Mar 2018
Posted: 2019-01-05 11:47

RSJ claims to do 50+% of volume in ICE

Founding Member
Nonius Unbound
Total Posts: 12791
Joined: Mar 2004
Posted: 2019-01-06 13:05
It’s always hard to compare shops with different AUM levels doing “similar” Strats. A shop that can do some level of success on, say, pairs trading, can’t be compared to another shop running 10x the capital.

As a general rule of thumb, low AUm shops can have awesome returns and relatively high sharps compared to their larger counterparts but often those Strats don’t scale. To go from 200mn to 2blllion or from 2bill to 20bill is a business strategy, not a trading strategy. It involves an acumen in cobbling together synergistic Strats And asset classes, salesmanship and the ability to get balance sheet from PBs.

Chiral is Tyler Durden


Total Posts: 62
Joined: Apr 2018
Posted: 2019-01-07 07:23

The article says they are the biggest trader in LIFFE, doesn't say they do 50%+. I doubt anyone does more than 20% in major exchanges. Even the fastest players tend to leave some money on the table.


Total Posts: 18
Joined: Jul 2012
Posted: 2019-08-17 14:20
Any idea about how recently launched funds like Qube (Credit Suisse spin-off) or Squarepoint are doing these days?


Total Posts: 34
Joined: Feb 2018
Posted: 2019-08-17 14:33
Citation from the page [2] of this thread (the answer appeared in the middle of 2018).


Squarepoint has 3 funds. The first had a Sharpe of 6, second had a Sharpe of 3, but the 3rd fund is mostly enhanced Risk Premia and struggling. Strategies in the first two funds, range from pure Arb like index cash Arb, Stat Arb, pairs, futures vs spot in European indices, and can be very short term. The first two funds are nothing like Grinhold and Kahn.

Qube, or do you mean Cube which is the ex CS Fund. Made a lot of noise. 1bn at launch. Made no money since launch outside of CS.


Total Posts: 293
Joined: Mar 2018
Posted: 2019-08-17 14:50
Thats quite old now though and last year wasnt a great year for quant hedge funds in general


Total Posts: 5
Joined: Jul 2019
Posted: 2019-08-20 15:30
So I guess the first two find of squarepoint won’t have too much size? Around 1b?


Total Posts: 5
Joined: Jul 2019
Posted: 2019-08-20 15:34
This year also seems not very good too. It seems that quant equity is hard to make money


Total Posts: 62
Joined: Apr 2018
Posted: 2019-11-07 09:03
Does anyone have any color on young prop firms like Headlands or Radix?
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