Jurassic
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| Total Posts: 415 |
| Joined: Mar 2018 |
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What are you paying these guys 4-6% a transaction for?
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goldorak
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| Total Posts: 1091 |
| Joined: Nov 2004 |
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| To keep on stirring up the air? |
If you are not living on the edge you are taking up too much space. |
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nikol
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| Total Posts: 1483 |
| Joined: Jun 2005 |
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4-6%? where did you get those? special offer? :)
(I did not look on purpose, just first pop-up example)
https://support.pro.coinbase.com/customer/en/portal/articles/2945310-fees |
... What is a man
If his chief good and market of his time
Be but to sleep and feed? (c) |
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Jurassic
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| Total Posts: 415 |
| Joined: Mar 2018 |
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Coinbase is "3.99% fees on credit and debit purchases".
What is the point? |
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Cause fiat's going to zero bro! Or BTC is going to infinity. Either way I'm happy to pay them fees to be able to dump my useless $$$
On a more serious note, what you're looking at is the sort of retail front end to Coinbase. Behind that is the actual exchange, https://pro.coinbase.com/. Fees there start at 0.5% taker fee and 0.5% maker fee. Which is still heinous, I think it used to start at 0.3% taker and zero fees for maker? But some ways away from 4%. As another data point Kraken starts at 0.16% maker and 0.26% taker. And BitMex is 0.025% rebate and 0.075% taker, which I believe is about the same across most crypto derivatives exchanges (that I've seen so far).
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nikol
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| Total Posts: 1483 |
| Joined: Jun 2005 |
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I see depo/withdrawal fees of 15 euro-cents for SEPA.
USD and GBP is more expensive. Sorry for you.
If you move cash with credit/debit cards, then ask your bank and, please, don't blame the crypto kitties.
PS. maybe I am missing something. Cannot find your 3.99% |
... What is a man
If his chief good and market of his time
Be but to sleep and feed? (c) |
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jslade
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| Total Posts: 1250 |
| Joined: Feb 2007 |
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The 3.99% is for buying crypto retail through Conbase. It's for people who use bitcoin ATM machines so they can buy muh dope vape pens on the dork web.
The major exchanges used to have 0% maker fees for reasonable volume. Now it's only 0% on high volume, which has funny microstructure side effects. FWIIW Gemini is better. Oh yeah, never, ever use Kraken; it's 10 people in a boiler room, and their order book is literally a REST-API. Not that this makes them much different from many non-dollar denominated exchanges, but they're creepy and broken. |
"Learning, n. The kind of ignorance distinguishing the studious." |
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Jurassic
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| Total Posts: 415 |
| Joined: Mar 2018 |
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"If you wanted to purchase bitcoin with a credit or debit card, we would charge a fee of 3.99% since the variable percentage fee is higher than the flat fee."
@nikol see https://support.coinbase.com/customer/en/portal/articles/2109597-coinbase-pricing-fees-disclosures
Surely though at the start you need to swap fiat money for bitcoin before you can use the exchange?
@jslade how can you work out their tech stack?? |
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@jurassic @jslade how can you work out their tech stack??
once you have used crypto exchanges, compared and traded them fair a bit, you just know. I guess what jslade meant is that their tech stack is based on some crappy nodejs server, some random github orderbook implementation, possibly the worst and slowest out there and some other nonsense crap that a (web??) dev with zero finance background would use and deem appropriate. |
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nikol
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| Total Posts: 1483 |
| Joined: Jun 2005 |
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I second campo_de_ems.
Trading crypto implies connection to multiple exchanges, so you know...
@jurassik As I guessed. Don't use credit/debit card. Point. |
... What is a man
If his chief good and market of his time
Be but to sleep and feed? (c) |
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Jurassic
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| Total Posts: 415 |
| Joined: Mar 2018 |
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| @nikol how else can you make the initial purchase? |
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nikol
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| Total Posts: 1483 |
| Joined: Jun 2005 |
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How? Once again. I am puzzled.
Bank transfers (SEPA) to Coinbase is FREE
Withdrawal from Coinbase to your bank account = 15 euro-cents for SEPA
(see table at the bottom of the page through your link)
Otherwise, do it in the most expensive way, for example, via LocalBitcoin in Venezuela or Iran. You might get there hidden charge of as high as 20%.
There is some other way - get hired in bitcoin industry and charge salary or fees in bitcoins. Simple ! |
... What is a man
If his chief good and market of his time
Be but to sleep and feed? (c) |
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Jurassic
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| Total Posts: 415 |
| Joined: Mar 2018 |
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@nikol my bad. I didnt read this well.
Kraken's valuation is $4bn. You guys need to get into crypto exchanges. It frustates me I cant build it. |
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> The major exchanges used to have 0% maker fees for reasonable volume. Now it's only 0% on high volume, which has funny microstructure side effects.
Anyone have any success negotiating this? I imagine if you approach them as an LLC and say we will do xyz volume but can only get there at 0% maker fee, they'd work with you because they'd rather have the liquidity. With the maker fees on Coinbase Pro, as a growing participant you'd go broke before getting to the 0% tier. |
"Nothing is more dangerous to the adventurous spirit within a man than a secure future." |
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| @Its Grisha: don't think so, unless you are tightly related to the exchange (eg they funded you). |
First Commander of the USS Enterprise |
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Perhaps this will change with the various institutional and colo offerings coming about? I imagine if you are wrapped in LLC or similar and paying for colo and the institutional feed you start off at near zero maker fees regardless of volume?
Unfortunately this fee structure change has kind of torpedoed my side projects. Perhaps you just have to be willing to burn money until you reach the volume threshold at which you are no longer burning money. |
"Nothing is more dangerous to the adventurous spirit within a man than a secure future." |
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nikol
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| Total Posts: 1483 |
| Joined: Jun 2005 |
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I think some negotiation is possible, but no experience on this.
Still, crypto exchanges put a honey on the spoon to attract bees:
making rebate
or even
fixed cash vs quoting liquidity within x% around the mid
It is true that Coinbase has removed rebate, but new exchanges are popping up all around. In general, the fattier exchanges get the less honey is left on the spoon. |
... What is a man
If his chief good and market of his time
Be but to sleep and feed? (c) |
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Was going to post this in its own thread but figured it's a newbie enough question and related.
I'm in NYC and want to trade algorithmically on the crypto options/futures exchanges that don't allow US customers (deribit, bitfinex, etc). What is the cheapest setup of an offshore vehicle that will prevent them from nuking my accounts for violating ToS? Anyone do this with a $1200 Panama corp or similar? Difficulty in getting bank account open?
Thanks in advance for any info, would compensate with a nice bottle if someone with relevant experience could grab drinks and walk a naively ambitious recent grad through this. |
"Nothing is more dangerous to the adventurous spirit within a man than a secure future." |
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nikol
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| Total Posts: 1483 |
| Joined: Jun 2005 |
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I don't have global view, but here is example from Deribit (https://www.deribit.com/pages/docs/terms-of-service):
"Any resident or citizen of the United States of America is prohibited from using the Website, holding positions or entering into contracts at Deribit.
Deribit reserves the right to immediately close any of your accounts and liquidate any open positions if it is determined that you have provided false information about your location or place of residence."
SEC-regulated exchanges, such as CME, Bakkt are running crypto markets as far as I understand even with better fee structures. Why not using them?
https://cointelegraph.com/news/us-bitcoin-derivatives-market-highlights-of-2019 |
... What is a man
If his chief good and market of his time
Be but to sleep and feed? (c) |
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Would prefer not to compete with FPGA wielding peers on CME. :) I'm specifically looking for exchanges where the closest thing to colocation is a cloud server in the same service region. I.e. low barrier to entry for a side project. Before they introduced the new fee structure on CB Pro, I had some success trading very latency sensitive signals, which I attribute to the fact that there was no real colo. As long as my code wasn't too bad, I pretty much had the same latency as anyone with unlimited resources.
As for the Deribit ToS, in my understanding inside a lot of securities law "person" can be replaced with corporate entity. So a non-US entity owned by a US citizen should qualify..? I know for a fact traders inside one Chicago shop are making markets on Deribit.. not sure how exactly their corporate structure allows for it. |
"Nothing is more dangerous to the adventurous spirit within a man than a secure future." |
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nikol
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| Total Posts: 1483 |
| Joined: Jun 2005 |
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For sure Deribit is not against someone providing them liquidity from Chicago. But they will do what they say, if account is legally exposed to US. Besides, they move accounts to Panama and their engine to Slough/London in few days. They promote co-location and high-frequency trading.
Look into https://quedex.net/ (Gibraltar). They run engine within Google-cloud in Belgium/Brussels.
Also https://www.zubr.io/ is coming. They claim to have "competitive" fees. Read their MM program ad. - I know some fellow close to them, he would be happy to bring "referenced customers". If you are interested, let me know, otherwise, apply directly. |
... What is a man
If his chief good and market of his time
Be but to sleep and feed? (c) |
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Jurassic
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| Total Posts: 415 |
| Joined: Mar 2018 |
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| why does coinbase pro make you pay fees to be a maker? surely they want mmers on their exchange? |
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Every time I want to do anything with Bitcoin I want to shoot myself because the UX is so bad. I must be doing this wrong.
I am using Coinbase out of Singapore and now I can only buy $100 a week with my credit card with 4%+ fees. And that doesn't even work. Impossible to link a bank account.
Should I be using Coinbase pro? Doesn't that come with some commitment to doing some volume? I don't want to trade very actively. What other exchanges are not obvious scams?
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"Earth: some bacteria and basic life forms, no sign of intelligent life" (Message from a type III civilization probe sent to the solar system circa 2016) |
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Depends what you want to buy. If I were you:
1. buy hardware wallet (ledger)
2. install Square and buy some BTC
3. send to hardware wallet
If you want to trade to other tokens, use a dex (decentalized exchange). Kyber, Bancor, or 0x. I like Kyber: https://www.ledger.com/kyber-network |
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nikol
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| Total Posts: 1483 |
| Joined: Jun 2005 |
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I first entered BTC via localbitcoins, which was rough experience due to settlement risk. But it ended ok.
So, coinbase looks even beautiful and very professional to me.
JPM felt on its knee and promised to be nice to bitcoiners. |
... What is a man
If his chief good and market of his time
Be but to sleep and feed? (c) |
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