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thisisboni


Total Posts: 10
Joined: Feb 2020
 
Posted: 2020-04-03 13:45
I sold my IT business late last year and am looking to get into the field of quant trading. I have an MS in CS from US (that Rhymes!!) and 15+ years of professional experience as a programmer, Project manager, BSA - being a small business owner I had to wear multiple hats.
I have been going thru some online courses but not sure how to get into this field. Any ideas / opinions will be very helpful!

Cheers
\

Maggette


Total Posts: 1257
Joined: Jun 2007
 
Posted: 2020-04-03 18:14
My 2 cents.

I know this is a hard pill to swallow for people who got force-fed the classical american "sport-commercial-you-can-do-it-if-you-believe-it-and-outwork-everybody" attitude....but, no, in general you can't.

I have a hard time envisioning self taught home grown quant-shops that make money on a consistent basis.

Sure. As an long term investor you might have an egde over some players in the fund business since you have more flexibility. And there might be exploitable short term strategies, that are not scalable enough and hence are not traded by the 2Sigmas of this world.

But if you have the skill set to identify, trade and manage these strategies...you are IMHO better off investing your money in an diversified and constatly rebalanced portfolio of ETFs and probably some real estate and sell this skill-set on the market....

Your sharpe ratio will be much better than trying to build your own quant shop.



Ich kam hierher und sah dich und deine Leute lächeln, und sagte mir: Maggette, scheiss auf den small talk, lass lieber deine Fäuste sprechen...

thisisboni


Total Posts: 10
Joined: Feb 2020
 
Posted: 2020-04-03 22:07
Appreciate the response @Maggette - I absolutely agree with you! I worked as a programmer for a few years in some fortune 100 companies prior to opening my last company. I am looking to do the same - was thinking of joining a quant trading organization to learn a few things first. Hence reaching out the gurus here :)!
\

nikol


Total Posts: 1195
Joined: Jun 2005
 
Posted: 2020-04-03 22:47
Honestly answering self simple question can also help

Why do you want to switch from what you did well

Maybe you just need to turn angle.

Strange


Total Posts: 1661
Joined: Jun 2004
 
Posted: 2020-04-04 03:00
https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/engineer_syllogism.png

'Progress just means bad things happen faster.’

thisisboni


Total Posts: 10
Joined: Feb 2020
 
Posted: 2020-04-04 15:22
@nikol - thanks for the perspective. I'm a programmer at heart :) -
I need a domain to code for. I like the capital market / trading in general and even though I can argue for / against the AI bandwagon I would like to get my feet wet so to speak.Hence trying to see a possible next step towards that.

@strange - thanks for the laugh - you gotta have some fun ! :)

Hope everyone is enjoying the weekend amidst this lock down - cheers


sharpe_machine


Total Posts: 62
Joined: Feb 2018
 
Posted: 2020-04-04 17:08
It depends. On the one hand, I agree with the opinion that it is very hard to build a good quant shop without a special academic and professional background.

On the other hand, ...

I personally know some ex-FB London guys (without any quant experience, they did not get offers from Citadel after graduating) who are as much mathematicians as I'm a ballerina, who set up crypto "market-making" shop and pull 0.5-1M per year each (started in 2017, still alive and profitable). They just carefully coded connectivity and simple algorithms from the textbook (literally). I think one has zero chance pulling those much working for FAANG in London.

thisisboni


Total Posts: 10
Joined: Feb 2020
 
Posted: 2020-04-04 17:51
I hear you @sharpe_machine and I'm all for risk taking , raising capital, sales and the whole 9 yds required to open shop.
At this point I am looking to learn and gain exposure first in a set firm. Skillset wise I was thinking of joining a team as a project manager (since I have good experience there) but I'm not sure if agile or scrum are general project management practices in firms - any insights on this will be very helpful -

Strange


Total Posts: 1661
Joined: Jun 2004
 
Posted: 2020-04-04 19:05
> They just carefully coded connectivity and simple algorithms from the textbook (literally).

Crypto markets are fairly unique since there are no really sophisticated players in that space. As long as it's a "so-so" asset, it's likely to stay the same, IMHO.

'Progress just means bad things happen faster.’

sharpe_machine


Total Posts: 62
Joined: Feb 2018
 
Posted: 2020-04-05 01:25
@thisisboni

My 2 cents.

In my experience "project management" in Google/FB/Yandex/tech is not very correlated to the quant world (I have both tech and quant background). Usually, we have a flat hierarchy with at most 3 levels from the junior to the "big boss" at big firms like Citadel and 1 level in smaller firms/groups (like XTX). Very similar to academia where "project manager" is a scientist himself (professor or senior postdoc) who constantly does new research with some help from students/postdocs/researchers.

Also, there could be some room for "project management" in the back office. For example, there might be some big project of building a new data pipeline or a new set of dashboards/GUIs which is basically a software project which might need some "agile" manager. But this type of job does not give you any exposure to money-making processes.

thisisboni


Total Posts: 10
Joined: Feb 2020
 
Posted: 2020-04-05 15:03
@sharpe_machine - thanks for that - very helpful.
Taking the professor / Postdoc option out what other (if any) ways I can get myself in this field ?

your 2 cents will accrue to a pint shortly! - which I'll be happy to trade ;)!

ronin


Total Posts: 601
Joined: May 2006
 
Posted: 2020-04-05 20:29
@thiisisboni,

I guess it is not entirely clear what you are trying to do, and why.

If you are looking for a job as a software architect or project manager or CTO in the quant industry, that is one thing. Like @sharpe_machine says, that is not a money making role. But if you make yourself indispensable, they will pay what they have to. Having said that, it is difficult to see how you can do that without some pretty specific knowledge.

Apprenticing yourself to someone in order to learn quant trading is something else. That will be pretty difficult at this stage of your career. People who do that are normally 20-something, cheap and hungry. They don't get paid much, but they have a chance of becoming big in due course. You'll have to have some really good reasons for wanting to do that, and you'll have to explain them. Over and over again.

Either way, talk to some headhunters who are active in the industry and see what they say.

"There is a SIX am?" -- Arthur

Jurassic


Total Posts: 373
Joined: Mar 2018
 
Posted: 2020-04-05 20:59
DRW was started by people with no finance experience or academic experience i think

sharpe_machine


Total Posts: 62
Joined: Feb 2018
 
Posted: 2020-04-05 21:10
Not sure if this is a reliable thing.

http://www.marketswiki.com/wiki/Don_Wilson

> He began his career with the Chicago-based firm LETCO in January 1989, after sending his resume to numerous Chicago-based firms. ...In 1992, Wilson founded DRW, which initially consisted of him trading his own account in the Eurodollar options pit.

Jurassic


Total Posts: 373
Joined: Mar 2018
 
Posted: 2020-04-05 21:14
i swear on the major prop shops was set up by a few database programmers from texas

mtsm


Total Posts: 253
Joined: Dec 2010
 
Posted: 2020-04-05 21:46
1989 - that makes a huge difference. That's prehistory. You cannot disregard this.

thisisboni


Total Posts: 10
Joined: Feb 2020
 
Posted: 2020-04-05 23:04
Thanks All - gives me some good next steps -
@ronin - I'll reach out to some headhunters - that's what I was thinking as well !
super helpful all !! do drop me a note if there are any good headhunters you are aware off!
Have a good week all!
Cheers!


Jurassic


Total Posts: 373
Joined: Mar 2018
 
Posted: 2020-04-15 19:00
@sharpe_machine which exchange do they this with/on? do you know anyhting about there tech stack?

TonyC
Nuclear Energy Trader

Total Posts: 1348
Joined: May 2004
 
Posted: 2020-04-15 20:56
Sharpe machine wrote:
"... ex-FB London ... "

My immediate reaction was, "First Boston London? Christ these guys must be my age"

flaneur/boulevardier/remittance man/energy trader

Kitno


Total Posts: 496
Joined: Mar 2005
 
Posted: 2020-04-17 16:54
My grads don't know what Wall Street (1987) is. All they know is Wolf of Wall Street.

I just don't get it - why did they want to get into finance if not to be Gekko?

On a laager on a hill. A long way from Avondale.
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